We’ve separated brand and performance for so long that we’ve forgotten they’re meant to work together. In this episode, we dig into how brands can align performance and brand-building and why it’s more dangerous not to try.

Our guests this time

🎙️ Cédric Ménard, CMO at Ellos, a heritage Swedish brand turned leading Nordic e-commerce player, where he leads marketing strategy with a sharp focus on both long-term brand value and short-term performance.

🎙️ Dag-Yero Midtvåge Steen Diallo, Client Director at Precis – a seasoned advisor to both B2B and B2C brands across many industries.

Together, we explore how to build a modern marketing strategy that balances performance pressure with brand ambition… and why CMOs should stop asking for permission to do what they know is right.

What we talked about

‍Brand and performance aren’t enemies: they’re 2 sides of the same coin. ‍

Brand has always been part of marketing. If you think about marketing before Google and Meta came into the picture, everything was branding. It’s actually performance marketing that came later! And somewhere along the line, we started treating them like opposing forces. Cédric and Dag argued this split is hurting marketers, and it's time to rethink that division. When brand and performance work in tandem, they make each other stronger.

The best time to invest in brand is when everything’s going well

Most brands wait too long (until growth plateaux or performance dips) to explore brand-building. But Cédric believes that’s exactly when you shouldn’t start. Instead, strengthen your performance engine first, then test brand investments early while you still have momentum. That way, you build evidence (and confidence!) for bigger bets down the line.

You can’t sell brand if you don’t measure it

One big blocker to brand investment? Lack of data. But as Dag points out, measurement frameworks need to evolve, too. From longer lookback windows to smarter attribution and triangulation of qualitative signals (like newsletter signups or brand sentiment), it's about showing impact, even if it’s indirect.

CMOs: Stop asking for permission

If you own the budget, you own the decision. Cédric makes a compelling case: the job of a CMO isn’t just to hit a CPA target: it’s to drive growth holistically. That means reallocating spend, running tests, and yes, taking risks. Build the case. Show the impact. Then scale what works.

The role of agencies in today’s landscape

What should agencies be in 2025? According to Cédric, it's not only executing tactics, it’s also orchestrating the full performance + brand mix. That means daring to challenge assumptions, propose bold experiments, and be truly integrated in strategic decision-making.

💡 Final takeaway?

Now that media, measurement, and consumer expectations shift constantly, playing it safe is the real risk. And for CMOs willing to be bold, brand isn’t a cost, it’s a multiplier!

—

📺 Watch the full episode here. 

🎧 Listen to the full episode on Spotify or Apple Podcasts.

👉 Subscribe to Connecting the dots: The newsletter for behind-the-scenes insights, bonus questions, and marketing strategies you won’t find anywhere else.

‍